Hey Guys,
I dont normally recomend movies found on Youtube or Google Video because everything is open to interpretation, BUT this one i think all christians should watch.
Where do you go when you die???
Big question, as a christian i believe i have been saved by the blood of Jesus and that im going to spend eternity in heaven. I dont fully grasp heaven or what il do in it, but thats not the purpose of this video.
If your a christian and you think your going to heaven ,awesome, if your a christian and dont believe in heaven or hell, you really need to wake up and smell the roses. READ your BIBLE.
But you say i want proof. Watch the movie and see what your missing out on in hell and begin a brand new relationship with your father in heaven and start to be gratefull for everything he has done for you!!! Just as i have.
I know this is a long video, and some may not believe he actually went, but by the end you will be convinced this is true and he is not lying. I give it a 9/10. its long but woke me up spiritually!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
theres a few versions of this on the net and this one is about 10 years old now, ther in a brand new version of him telling this and more in 2006 see link below this one for that, but watch this one first.
23 Minutes in HELL, by Bill Wiese, he explains the torments of what Hell is like
SpiritLessons.com - 1 hr 37 min - Mar 31, 2006 -
(161 ratings)
... Please View the REFERENCE EDITION version of 23 Minutes is Hell Video, It is much Higher quality) Bill Wiese saw the searing flames of hell, felt total ...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=648563944666093503
2006 version:
23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese (Newest Version - Dec 2006) More Details
1 hr 7 min - Jan 28, 2007 - (8 ratings)
... of God lifting him out of the pit. Wiese's visit to the devil's lair lasted just twenty-three minutes, but he returned with vivid details etched in ... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-750107269338052182
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9 comments:
Interesting, I'll do my best to find the time to watch the video.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on something Jared since you seem serious about studying the Bible. In the New Testament there are 3 words that our English versions translate as 'Hell', they are 'Gehenna, Hades and Tartaros.... they are 3 very different concepts... when you talk about 'Hell', which one are you talking about? What are your thoughts on Gehenna, Hades and Tartaros. As someone who reads my Bible, I take this translation issue very seriously, so would appreciate hearing your thoughts.
I'm hoping to hear an answer from you too Jared. I hope you aren't going to throw the issue out there and then run away when it comes to some serious questions.
Hey Guys,
Sorry for the delay, just moved and been settling in to our new house.
Ok here we go...
I understand that there are different meanings of the word hell, but im heading into the one concept of where do we go when we die?
A big question, im guess ing Rhett and servant will be in (and I don’t mean to generalize as you 2 may not believe this) one accord, as I have heard Rhett say that when we die, if were Christian we go to heaven, if were not we get judged and either go into the abyss and never see anyone or cease to exist.
i chose to believe that this is crap and go along the line of and will back up with bible verses as follows soon. I fully believe that yes authors in the bible uses the word hell in different ways to explain things , but as they are human that’s the only way that they knew how to, without having TV to show you what it looks like they used words and things around them that best described their view of hell to explain hell.
Hell is a real place for me and always has been and always will be.
If there’s no hell, why bother being missionaries and save the lost, if they just cease to exist what’s the purpose. The purpose of being a missionary is to go out and save peoples souls from a horrible and tortured life in hell for eternity. And that we should do everything in our ability to save people from it.
But unfortunately being raised in a white middle class family, i am comfortable and constantly fight with my flesh to remind my self, WHAT AM I HERE FOR. What is my purpose? And to stop being for me and do all i can for the lord to be rewarded not here but in heaven.
Saving people for a eternity is what were here for and t restore them to a life with Jesus what was broken at the fall of man.
So that’s where im coming from. Hell is real; choose to accept it as real or not.
It’s just like Demons. Do you believe they are real, and Angels?
I fully believed in them and thought they were real.
But did I really??????????????
NO, I did but didn’t at the same time.
Till and Rhett will be a witness to this as he was there,
Until one night the Lords perfect timing he decided that enough was enough and the Demon that had been terrorising me for my whole life since birth, was cast out of me in Jesus name.
I felt an angels voice talk through mine telling Rhett and Myke that they were to remain calm and that the Lord had control over everything that was about to happen.
Then I shut down, I didn’t control my body anymore, the demon did, and I felt his fear of Rhett and Myke, the essence of Gods love beaming out of them, all he wanted to do was crawl away as soon as possible, like a snake running away.
We were in a car and so I couldn’t but be got me into a corner and pushed me so close to the door I could feel my bones bending.
He did not like anything that was happening and knew his time was up.
Rhett and Myke prayed talked to the demon found out his name and cast him out. (Short version)
I felt this part of me not flesh or bone but soul, it had been ripped literally, like looking at a steak that has been ripped in two, and the one side felt like inside me, a part of me had been ripped away. Over the next few weeks as I got more into the word and for the first time in my life actually understood the bible crystal clear. God filled me up, and healed the broken torn inside spirit part of me. As we began to become friends for the first time I could feel him moved into my heart exactly where the demon had lived all my life.
And since that day I have been intensely interested in demons, angels AND how to serve My awesome God better.
Hell for me is where these evil vile things live, and from what the guy spoke about in the video, what’s what I had living inside me, one of those, a lust full spirit a evil vile and disgusting creature, bent on keeping me away from the Lord. He was ancient to, i could just know when he left me, I knew things that you don’t understand on this world, like as his spirit left I could feel who he was. It’s had to explain. He was short, but staunch with armour on his shoulders, he was high ranking as I could feel his authority, very knowledgeable and wise, knew every trick in the book. And he knew everything about me. EVERYTHING!
It doesn’t scare me to think about him now but to this day I remember about exactly a week later after he left me. HE came back, I was at church and all the males knew about it, its the first time I have ever cried a terrified helpless cry, deep sobbing, i knew he was there in the prayer room (it was just me praying) and suddenly he was there. I felt that connection when he was close to me, eyeing me up, looking into my soul, but not touching me, circling around me very proud and excited, he was back to claim me for his own again. But couldn’t get in, it made him furious and started attacking my thoughts of am I really saved is God really protecting me, i ran down to the men in the church and asked them to come up to the prayer room and pray with me cause I couldn’t be in there by myself, I was terrified by him. They did and reassure me im Gods child and not Satan’s and that the demon had no chance of ever getting me back again. He left and I haven’t seen him since, but i have felt his presence a few times, checking up on me. I can’t explain it but I know he’se there.
I fully believe when the bible talks about demons and angels and hell.
MY Bible is my lifeline as such to God; his way of telling me what is really there and not.
Hell is real, and in the video those demons are what I had encountered, and from what he said I did feel the same thing, the despise Christians on fire for the Lord, but love Christians that fight and don’t listen to the Lord. They can stand the name of Jesus and scream and run away at even the thought of him.
Id challenge everyone who is reading this to be more careful of what you think, just lets say if you were wrong about thinking hell doesn’t exist. How bad will you feel in heaven when you didn’t tell people about it?
I will go into a few examples here.
Please excuse the numbers they are exact Hebrew, or Greek references to my dictionary. The Dictionary I use is the Strongs Hebrew and Greek Dictionary.
I will make use of the following number repeatedly: 7585 (description below)
She’ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Deu 32:22
For3588 a fire784 is kindled6919 in mine anger, 639 and shall burn3344 unto5704 the lowest8482 hell,7585 and shall consume398 the earth776 with her increase,2981 and set on fire3857 the foundations4146 of the mountains.2022
Strongs:
The Hell word used here is Hades, or the world of the Dead, be care full me to choose the meanings you like in words. Hades or the World of the dead (as if a subterranean place) including its accessories and inmates, grave, hell, pit. 7585
Jared:
i think that explains hell is a place under the earth, if not here somewhere, where the dead live and it includes everything so saying its a actual place.
2Sa 22:6
The sorrows2256 of hell7585 compassed me about; 5437 the snares4170 of death4194 prevented6923 me;
Strongs:
H7585, 7585
Jared: as before.
Job 11:8
It is as high1363 as heaven; 8064 what4100 canst thou do?6466 deeper6013 than hell;4480, 7585 what4100 canst thou know?3045
Strongs:
H6013, aw-moke
Deep (literally or figuratively) deep (thing)
And
H7585, 7585
Jared: same as above
Job 26:6
Hell7585 is naked6174 before5048 him, and destruction11 hath no369 covering.3682
Strong:
7585
Jared: as in the video, another of your embarrassments is to be naked in hell.
Psa 9:17
The wicked7563 shall be turned7725 into hell, 7585 and all 3605 the nations1471 that forget7913 God.430
Strongs:
7585
Jared: as I said, this is why we preach and become missionaries to save the ; lost and save them from coming here.
Psa 18:5
The sorrows2256 of hell7585 compassed me about:5437 the snares4170 of death4194 prevented6923 me.
Strongs:
7585
Jared:
Pain and suffering in hell.
Psa 86:13
For3588 great1419 is thy mercy2617 toward5921 me: and thou hast delivered5337 my soul5315 from the lowest8482 hell.4480, 7585
Strongs: 7585
Jared: lowest hell? I can see a meaning in hell being below. What do you think?
Psa 116:3
The sorrows2256 of death4194 compassed661 me, and the pains4712 of hell7585 got hold upon4672 me: I found4672 trouble6869 and sorrow.3015
Strongs: 7585
Jared: sorrows of death? Meaning torture and pain in hell. Sorrow can mabie be see as sorrow of being away from god, but pain that in the H4712
מצר
mêtsar
may-tsar'
From H6896; something tight, that is, (figuratively) trouble: - distress, pain, strait.
Interesting hey.
Pro 5:5
Her feet7272 go down3381 to death;4194 her steps6806 take hold8551 on hell.7585
Strongs: 7585
Jared: talking about sin , but taking on woman for to explain more clearly. I thought it interesting that it was written as hell to go down to death. Interesting.
Pro 7:27
Her house1004 is the way1870 to hell,7585 going down3381 to413 the chambers2315 of death.4194
Strongs: 7585
Jared: wisdom literature here warning about what will happen, but I thought interesting here that it comments on hell as having chambers. Refer to movie for a clearer interpretation.
Pro 15:11
Hell7585 and destruction11 are before5048 the LORD:3068 how much more then637, 3588 the hearts3826 of the children1121 of men?120
Strongs: 7585
Jared: destruction being H11
אבדּון
'ăbaddôn
ab-ad-done'
Intensively from H6; abstractly a perishing; concretely Hades: - destruction.
So destruction in hell. Something to think about.
Pro 15:24 The way734 of life2416 is above4605 to the wise,7919 that4616 he may depart5493 from hell4480, 7585 beneath.4295
Strongs: 7585
Jared: hell beneath?
Beneath.. H4295
מטּה
maṭṭâh
mat'-taw
From H5786 with directive enclitic appended; downward, below or beneath; often adverbially with or without prefixes: - beneath, down (-ward), less, very low, under (-neath).
Pro 23:14
Thou859 shalt beat5221 him with the rod,7626 and shalt deliver5337 his soul5315 from hell.4480, 7585
Strongs: 7585
Jared: deliver…
H5337
נצל
nâtsal
naw-tsal'
A primitive root; to snatch away, whether in a good or a bad sense: - X at all, defend, deliver (self), escape, X without fail, part, pluck, preserve, recover, rescue, rid, save, spoil, strip, X surely, take (out).
Why would you want to deliver some one from somewhere that it wouldn’t be tortured?
Pro 27:20
Hell7585 and destruction10 are never3808 full;7646 so the eyes5869 of man120 are never3808 satisfied.7646
Strongs: 7585
Jared:
Destruction: H10
אבדּה
'ăbaddôh
ab-ad-do'
The same as H9, miswritten for H11; a perishing: - destruction.
Never: H3808
לה לוא לא
lô' lô' lôh
lo, lo, lo
lo; a primitive particle; not (the simple or abstract negation); by implication no; often used with other particles: - X before, + or else, ere, + except, ig [-norant], much, less, nay, neither, never, no ([-ne], -r, [-thing]), (X as though . . . , [can-], for) not (out of), of nought, otherwise, out of, + surely, + as truly as, + of a truth, + verily, for want, + whether, without.
Fill: H7646
שׂבע שׂבע
śâba‛ śâbêa‛
saw-bah', saw-bay'-ah
A primitive root; to sate, that is, fill to satisfaction (literally or figuratively): - have enough, fill (full, self, with), be (to the) full (of), have plenty of, be satiate, satisfy (with), suffice, be weary of.
So hell will never be satisfied and destruction will be forever? Can you see that there?
Isa 5:14 Therefore3651 hell7585 hath enlarged7337 herself,5315 and opened6473 her mouth6310 without1097 measure:2706 and their glory,1926 and their multitude,1995 and their pomp,7588 and he that rejoiceth,5938 shall descend3381 into it.
Strongs: 7585
Jared: descend into hell. Interesting
Isa 14:9 Hell7585 from beneath4480, 8478 is moved7264 for thee to meet7122 thee at thy coming:935 it stirreth up5782 the dead7496 for thee, even all3605 the chief ones6260 of the earth;776 it hath raised up6965 from their thrones4480, 3678 all3605 the kings4428 of the nations.1471
Strongs: 7585
Jared: hell beneath again.
Isa 14:15 Yet389 thou shalt be brought down3381 to413 hell,7585 to413 the sides3411 of the pit.953
Strongs: 7585
Jared: the word down used again and Pit: H953
בּור
bôr
bore
From H952 (in the sense of H877); a pit hole (especially one used as a cistern or prison): - cistern, dungeon, fountain, pit, well.
Eze 31:16 I made the nations1471 to shake7493 at the sound4480, 6963 of his fall,4658 when I cast him down3381, (853) to hell7585 with854 them that descend3381 into the pit:953 and all3605 the trees6086 of Eden,5731 the choice4005 and best2896 of Lebanon,3844 all3605 that drink8354 water,4325 shall be comforted5162 in the nether parts8482 of the earth.776
Strongs: 7585
Jared: descend, pit, nether parts of the earth. Mmm
Mat 5:22 But1161 I1473 say3004 unto you,5213 That3754 whosoever3956 is angry3710 with his848 brother80 without a cause1500 shall be2071 in danger1777 of the3588 judgment:2920 and1161 whosoever3739, 302 shall say2036 to his848 brother,80 Raca,4469 shall be2071 in danger1777 of the3588 council:4892 but1161 whosoever3739, 302 shall say,2036 Thou fool,3474 shall be2071 in danger1777 of1519 hell1067 fire.4442
Strongs: G1067
γέεννα
geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Jared: Now with Jesus words, hell has fire. And notice the word hell has changed to everlasting punishment.
Mat 5:29 And1161 if1487 thy4675 right1188 eye3788 offend4624 thee,4571 pluck it out,1807, 846 and2532 cast906 it from575 thee:4675 for1063 it is profitable4851 for thee4671 that2443 one1520 of thy4675 members3196 should perish,622 and2532 not3361 that thy4675 whole3650 body4983 should be cast906 into1519 hell.1067
Strongs: G1067
γέεννα
geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Jared: Jesus teaching that it is better to cut off the part of your body that makes you sin than go to hell. He really doesn’t want you to go there. I think this passage is clear.
Mat 5:30 And2532 if1487 thy4675 right1188 hand5495 offend4624 thee,4571 cut it off,1581, 846 and2532 cast906 it from575 thee:4675 for1063 it is profitable4851 for thee4671 that2443 one1520 of thy4675 members3196 should perish,622 and2532 not3361 that thy4675 whole3650 body4983 should be cast906 into1519 hell.1067
Strongs: 1067
Jared: ones body will perish, be cast into hell.
Mat 10:28 And2532 fear5399 not3361, (575) them which kill615 the3588 body,4983 but1161 are not3361 able1410 to kill615 the3588 soul:5590 but1161 rather3123 fear5399 him which is able1410 to destroy622 both2532 soul5590 and2532 body4983 in1722 hell.1067
Strongs: 1067
Jared: Jesus telling you that you have a soul and to fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Interesting as in the movie you have a body which is tortured. Apposed to heaven where you get a restored body a perfect body.
Mat 18:9 And2532 if1487 thine4675 eye3788 offend4624 thee,4571 pluck it out,1807, 846 and2532 cast906 it from575 thee:4675 it is2076 better2570 for thee4671 to enter1525 into1519 life2222 with one eye,3442 rather2228 than having2192 two1417 eyes3788 to be cast906 into1519 hell1067 fire.4442
Strongs: 1067
Jared: again different version, hells fire still interesting.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents,3789 ye generation1081 of vipers,2191 how4459 can ye escape5343, (575) the3588 damnation2920 of hell?1067
Strongs: 1067
Jared: damnation meaning: G2920
κρίσις
krisis
kree'-sis
(Subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension a tribunal; by implication justice (specifically divine law): - accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.
Mar 9:43 And2532 if1437 thy4675 hand5495 offend4624 thee,4571 cut it off:609, 846 it is2076 better2570 for thee4671 to enter1525 into1519 life2222 maimed,2948 than2228 having2192 two1417 hands5495 to go565 into1519 hell,1067 into1519 the3588 fire4442 that never shall be quenched:762
Strongs: 1067
Jared: Fire that will never be quenched: G762
ἄσβεστος
asbestos
as'-bes-tos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G4570; not extinguished, that is, (by implication) perpetual: - not to be quenched, unquenchable.
Luk 12:5 But1161 I will forewarn5263 you5213 whom5101 ye shall fear:5399 Fear5399 him, which after he hath killed615 hath2192 power1849 to cast1685 into1519 hell;1067 yea,3483 I say3004 unto you,5213 Fear5399 him.5126
Strongs: 1067
Jared: fear him who can cast you into hell. Very interesting.
2Pe 2:4 For1063 if1487 God2316 spared5339 not3756 the angels32 that sinned,264 but235 cast them down to hell,5020 and delivered3860 them into chains4577 of darkness,2217 to be reserved5083 unto1519 judgment;2920
Strongs: 1067
Jared: so God cast the fallen angels into hell, into chains of darkness. Very interesting.
Rev 1:18 (2532) I am he that liveth,2198 and2532 was1096 dead;3498 and,2532 behold,2400 I am1510 alive2198 forevermore,1519, 165, 165 Amen;281 and2532 have2192 the3588 keys2807 of hell86 and2532 of death.2288
Strongs: 1067
Jared: so God has the keys for hell. So were talking about Jesus who dies and Rosa again to live forevermore. Cool hey.
ev 20:12 And2532 I saw1492 the3588 dead,3498 small3398 and2532 great,3173 stand2476 before1799 God;2316 and2532 the books975 were opened:455 and2532 another243 book975 was opened,455 which is3603 the book of life:2222 and2532 the3588 dead3498 were judged2919 out of1537 those things which were written1125 in1722 the3588 books,975 according2596 to their848 works.2041
Rev 20:13 And2532 the3588 sea2281 gave up1325 the3588 dead3498 which were in1722 it;846 and2532 death2288 and2532 hell86 delivered up1325 the3588 dead3498 which were in1722 them:846 and2532 they were judged2919 every man1538 according2596 to their848 works.2041
Rev 20:14 And2532 death2288 and2532 hell86 were cast906 into1519 the3588 lake3041 of fire.4442 This3778 is2076 the3588 second1208 death.2288
Rev 20:15 And2532 whosoever1536 was not3756 found2147 written1125 in1722 the3588 book976 of life2222 was cast906 into1519 the3588 lake3041 of fire.4442
Strongs: 1067
Jared: and so to finish with all of this I see that there is a lake of fire which everyone will in the end will be thrown into. Quite frightening if you know that is your friend at work and your unsaved parents or grandparents.
So hell is a Put with a Lake of Fire. Where you get tortured. Mmm
The reason I have go into all of these as I felt I needed to explain a bit deeper.
I did speak to George Wieland, one of my lecturers today and after a long good conversation about this, he did put line the Rubbish heap outside Jerusalem and other terms that are used for hell. The reason they used these explanations were because this was the best way that they could explain hell as a place of ugly disgusting terrible place to be in their words.
HE did say that for himself there isn’t enough evidence to prove that hell is real, but I did pose to him a really question …
What would you say it an eternal being? A should that is created as eternal soul, which is what we believe we have?
So when we die we go to heaven and if we aren’t saved we go either to hell or cease to exist.
But how could we cease to exist f we were created eternal beings?
I find this whole discussion extremely important. As for Mission as well.
Think about this, if we are created beings, who reject Christ and do what we want to do, we die and get judged by God in heaven and then suddenly cease to exist.
Seems a bit week doesn’t it.
A cop out if you ask me.
Hell is real, that’s why we need missionaries to go out and evangelize and restore people to life with Christ again. So they don’t end up in Hell in everlasting Torment and Pain and Anguish.
I have brought forward this argument to make everyone think about and challenge what they believe. Are you sure you don’t believe in a Hell? Are you now more open to the Idea? Let me know your Thoughts.
God Bless
Jared
Hey Jared
Thanks for your thoughts. You are right: I am an Annihalationist. That means I believe that people cease to exist after the final judgement if they are not 'saved'. However this is a view I hold very loosely, there are certainly a lot of holes in it. There are a lot of holes in most views of hell. It's not something I get to worried about. For me eternal separation from God IS hell, never mind the burning; this is a far worse punishment. Whether that is in an eternal lake of fire or in that we cease to exist, it's still hell.
I do believe in angels and demons, for sure. I think that it's easy to go to extremes on the issue; I believe cases of demonic posession are rare but they are certainly real. It's good to have a balanced approach.
I want to pick up on one thread that runs throughout your comment: the sense that hell is a motivational factor to evangelise and save 'the lost'.
I can tell you that hell hardly comes into it for me: and I am plenty passionate about people coming to know Jesus.
I think the concept of hell as a motivator for evangelism is a bad way to go. What should motivate us to evangelise?
What about the way of life that Jesus offers? An alignment with your creator, forgiveness of your sins. Anti-karma. Living life in synch with the Creator and his creation. For me, living as a follower of Jesus is REALLY living. It's living how God made us to live. I can feel it in the deepest part of my being.
That excites me. I want to share that.
I think that if we get into this following Christ thing because we want to avoid hell, then we need a reality check.
The greatest commandment is to love God and love others. That starts right now. Instead of daydreaming of heaven, what about trying to bring heaven to earth right now? (I stole that from Frank and then later Rob Bell).
I don't actually know what Frank believes on the topic of hell. It may be completely different. I'm not really worried about whether you believe that punishment is eternal and I believe non-Christians cease to exist. It's not an issue for me.
But that thread running through you post, "If there’s no hell, why bother being missionaries and saving the lost, if they just cease to exist what’s the purpose?"...
The purpose is that they may know life and know it too it's fullest. Isn't that motivation enough?
What a hard post to follow, anyway I'll try to give a coherent opinion on the subject :P
Hell, a very difficult subject to talk upon because of all the conflicting views, so lets go to the bible to see all these aspects, starting with demons and angels, then earth heaven and hell and the afterlife.
First demons and angels. Originally only angels in heaven, servants of God. Satan starts a coup and fails and is cast to earth. Satan is the prince of earth, not of hell.
Luke 10:18 Satan is cast down from heaven
“…and He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning”
John12:31 Satan rules the earth
"Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
Revelation 20:7 Satan is condemned to hell
“And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
Satan and the demons roam the earth; they do not torment souls in hell. Hell is where they are condemned along with all those who do not follow Christ.
Hell, literal or metaphorical?
Revelation 19:20 “And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire, which burns with brimstone.”
It would appear that hell is a literal place, as one cannot be cast into oblivion. The nature of hell is, well up for debate. Most biblical scholars would argue that the descriptions of hell are metaphorical, trying to explain to people the severity of hell by using familiar objects. E.g. fire and brimstone, which is burning sulphur, is such a hot flame and it cannot be extinguished easily, it would be the most painful experience for someone to be burned with sulphur.
So it is with hell, the separation from God is so severe that the one thing our souls desire, relationship with the living God, we are deprived of, and this would be torment for us. Is hell eternal? Again up for debate, some would believe that after due punishment, those who are in hell are either annihilated or let into heaven.
Heaven, earth, afterlife? Do we go to heaven when we die? Why would God create a new earth if he was going to send us all to heaven? 2 Peter 3:13. My idea of heaven would be based on this, that we would have a new earth, in which righteousness dwells, so it would be like earth before the fall, which is what the work of Christ is all about, creation cannot be saved, but our souls can, so God saves our souls and creates for us a new heaven.
Well that’s my thoughts, you asked for it, oh and I also don’t think that the possibility of hell should be our motivation for evangelism, another doomsday prophet is the last thing we need.
“Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.” Luke 10:20
i dissagree with both nathan and rhett.
Youstill havent answered my question though.
If we were created as a body with an eternal soul how could you expect there to be no consequences if you died. and knew that God existed but chose not to follow him, nbut instead chose to do what ever you wanted.
My God is big and he also is amazing enough to forgive me all the times i sin, but i also know to respect him. If i dont want to follow him he wont force me, thats free will. and when i die he wont force me to be with him in heaven to, but there will be consequences of my actions in the after life. As if i chose not to become saved i will then go to hell. I have out lined all above.
I dont know where you go when you die, i have seen in the scripture that you go to a holding cellin the abyss and are tortured but not thrown into the pit of fire that is reserved for the end of days, the day of judgement when every unbeliever and all demons and satan will be cast into the pit of fire and be tormented for ever.
im sorry but this is extrememly important, just think if you do for just one second agree with me what the implications will be.
All your unsaved family and friends wont just ceace to exist but they will be forver tortured in hell. Do you really want to talke the risk?
But if you choose to take the view of that you just ceace to exist and that just being apart from god is torture enough, i guess as long as you still with the same emphasis and effort will try to save lost souls then we will have to agree to dissagree.
At least we both then still are trying to restore people with their heavenly father and thats all thats important.
Tahx for all that posted.Interesting to see your views.
Watch the movie of you can. If you dont want to then dont say i disnt warn you when we see each other in heaven. :)
Love and Peace
JAred
I don't think it's a relevant question. We both want people to know God right? We'll both do our best in this life to move others (and ourselves) closer to God right?
What's the point of this discussion again?
I'm just not interested in scaring people into becoming a follower of Christ. I'm more interested in showing people a better way to live: in relationship with the creator and his creation. I think that's more positive, and biblical.
I don't have much else to say. As I have said (in a more direct way) on my own blog, I'm not really sure there is a point in conversing with you on issues like this. Frankly, my friend, I just don't have a lot of respect for the way you conduct yourself in these debates.
Thats an interesting theory about the holding cell, its much like the theory of purgatory in catholicism. What are your references for it?
If you need a search tool www.bible.cc is good as it has many different translations and both greek and hebrew plus commentaries.
If we look at the example of the guy crucified with christ we see the Jesus says that he will be in paradice with Him on that day. Why then would people be sent to a holding cell for hell?
Demons do not rule or live in hell contrary to popular culture, so who would be torturing the unbelievers? How would they be tortured, as they would not have bodies that can be physically tortured? Their bodies would be in the earth decaying.
We also have to take into acount that heaven and hell are out side of time, so it is likely that once you die, judgement day is present time for you. Just like the parade analogy, if you are on the side of the road you only see one float going past at a time, if you are on top of a building you can see the whole parade at onece. So if you die you are transported from the ground to the roof. what are your thoughts?
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